Discussion of Formula One racing

So – Bridgestone out after 2010.  There’s time to line up another source
of tires, but what other manufacturer is likely to step up?

And – Toyota out immediately.  What are the penalties for leaving before
2012 under the new Concorde agreement?  Why is the FIA talking about
needing to clarify the legal situation (especially as this prolongs the
uncertainty around Sauber Qadbak’s entry)?  And why are the FIA and
Ferrari sniping at each other again over cost containment?

Oh, and does anyone think that if the Renault board had decided today to
continue in F1 they wouldn’t have announced it immediately (rather than
delaying past their PR event already scheduled for Thursday)?

–
Mark Jackson – http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
     Not knowing is much more interesting than believing
     an answer that might be wrong.    - Richard Feynman

Links

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Best Lap Comparison – Italian GP 2009
=====================================

Q: How does the best lap of the whole weekend (3 practice sessions, 3 qualifying
periods and the race) compare to the best lap of the weekend in 2008?

Here are two tables – one compares driver with driver; easy enough if the same
driver remains in the same team. If not we compare the 2008 driver with the guy
who replaced him.

Note: Honda has morphed into Brawn-Mercedes, while Force India have switched
from Ferrari to Mercedes power.

‘S’ is the session when the best lap was achieved (P1/P2/P3/Q1/Q2/Q3/R)
‘Lps’ are the total laps in all sessions
‘Diff’ is the gain/loss in seconds
‘%Diff’ is the difference in time as a percentage of the 2008 time

Negative Diff/%Diff mean that the driver/team improved. Positive means they got worse.

There can be several reasons for the variations seen.

2008 Team         2008 Driver S   Lps  Time     2009 Driver S   Lps  Time    Diff.  %Diff
=========================================================================================
Renault           Piquet      P2  109  1′26.195 Grosjean    Q2  138 1′23.728 -2.467 -2.86
[Honda]           Button      P2  123  1′25.309 Button      Q2  153 1′22.955 -2.354 -2.76
[Honda]           Barrichello P2  111  1′25.296 Barrichello Q2  155 1′22.976 -2.320 -2.72
Toyota            Trulli      P2  130  1′25.753 Trulli      Q2  152 1′23.611 -2.142 -2.50
F India-[Ferrari] Fisichella  P2   82  1′25.204 Liuzzi      Q2  137 1′23.207 -1.997 -2.34
Renault           Alonso      P2  123  1′25.481 Alonso      Q2  151 1′23.497 -1.984 -2.32
F India-[Ferrari] Sutil       P2  114  1′24.669 Sutil       Q2  150 1′23.070 -1.599 -1.89
Red Bull-Renault  Coulthard   P2  112  1′25.100 Vettel      Q2  127 1′23.545 -1.555 -1.83
Toyota            Glock       P2  138  1′25.397 Glock       P3  138 1′23.959 -1.438 -1.68
Red Bull-Renault  Webber      P2  120  1′24.521 Webber      Q2   81 1′23.273 -1.248 -1.48
Williams-Toyota   Nakajima    P2  106  1′25.330 Nakajima    Q1  146 1′24.074 -1.256 -1.47
McLaren-Mercedes  Hamilton    P2  106  1′23.983 Hamilton    Q2  151 1′22.973 -1.010 -1.20
T Rosso-Ferrari   Bourdais    P2  147  1′25.192 Buemi       Q1  166 1′24.220 -0.972 -1.14
McLaren-Mercedes  Kovalainen  P2  113  1′24.365 Kovalainen  Q1  168 1′23.515 -0.850 -1.01
Ferrari           Räikkönen   P2  113  1′23.861 Räikkönen   Q1  166 1′23.349 -0.512 -0.61
BMW Sauber-BMW    Heidfeld    P2  121  1′23.947 Heidfeld    P3  144 1′23.490 -0.457 -0.54
Ferrari           Massa       P2  127  1′24.247 Fisichella  Q1  147 1′23.828 -0.419 -0.50
BMW Sauber-BMW    Kubica      P2  108  1′23.931 Kubica      Q2  110 1′23.866 -0.065 -0.08

Williams-Toyota   Rosberg     P2  136  1′24.110 Rosberg     Q1  151 1′24.121 +0.011 +0.01
T Rosso-Ferrari   Vettel      P2  140  1′24.773 Alguersuari Q1  104 1′24.951 +0.178 +0.21

Notes

Only Nico Rosberg and Jaime Alguersuari were unable to better the equivalent time from 2008.
It should be noted that all the 2008 best times were set during Friday practice, the only
dry sessions that weekend.

The second table takes the best lap time from both drivers in each team and compares
with the equivalent team last season. Probably a better comparison.

2008 Team         2008 Driver S   Lps  Time     2009 Driver S   Lps  Time    Diff.  %Diff
=========================================================================================
[Honda]           Barrichello P2  234  1′25.296 Button      Q2  308 1′22.955 -2.341 -2.74
Renault           Alonso      P2  232  1′25.481 Alonso      Q2  289 1′23.497 -1.984 -2.32
Toyota            Glock       P2  268  1′25.397 Trulli      Q2  290 1′23.611 -1.786 -2.09
F India-[Ferrari] Sutil       P2  196  1′24.669 Sutil       Q2  187 1′23.070 -1.599 -1.89
Red Bull-Renault  Webber      P2  232  1′24.521 Webber      Q2  208 1′23.273 -1.248 -1.48
McLaren-Mercedes  Hamilton    P2  219  1′23.983 Hamilton    Q2  319 1′22.973 -1.010 -1.20
T Rosso-Ferrari   Vettel      P2  287  1′24.773 Buemi       Q1  270 1′24.220 -0.553 -0.65
Ferrari           Räikkönen   P2  240  1′23.861 Räikkönen   Q1  313 1′23.349 -0.512 -0.61
BMW Sauber-BMW    Kubica      P2  229  1′23.931 Heidfeld    P3  254 1′23.490 -0.441 -0.53
Williams-Toyota   Rosberg     P2  242  1′24.110 Nakajima    Q1  297 1′24.074 -0.036 -0.04

All 10 teams were quicker than last year, partly due to the weather in 2008.

Taking the positions of the teams from table 2 we can produce an average position for
the season to date.

    Team              R1 R2 R3 R4 R5 R6 R7 R8 R9 10 11 12 13  Tot  Avg.
=======================================================================
 1. Brawn-Mercedes     1  1  2  2  1  1  1  1  -  4  1  2  1   18  1.50
 2. F India-Mercedes   8  6  1  1  5  2  3  5  -  2  2  1  4   40  3.33
 3. Red Bull-Renault   2  4  3  3  2  4  4  6  -  3  3  5  5   44  3.67
 4. Williams-Toyota    3  2  4  6  3  7  2  2  -  1  4  4 10   48  4.00
 5. Toyota             4  3  5  7  4  9  5  3  - 10  7  3  3   63  5.25
 6. Renault            5  5  6  4  8  5  6  4  -  7  6  7  2   65  5.42
 7. T Rosso-Ferrari   10  7  8  5  6  3  7  9  -  6 10 10  7   88  7.33
 8. BMW Sauber-BMW     7  8  7  9  9 10  8  8  -  5  8  6  9   94  7.83
 9. Ferrari            6  9  9 10  7  6  9  7  -  9  9  8  8   97  8.08
10. McLaren-Mercedes   9 10 10  8 10  8 10 10  -  8  5  9  6  103  8.58

–

Brian W Lawrence
Wantage,
Oxfordshire, UK
Brian_W_Lawre…@msn.com

It’s, (roughly) the 11th minute of the 11th hour of the 11th day of
the 11th month.  In the US it’s Veteran’s Day, in Europe it’s
Armistice Day, but …

I want to thank everyone who served their country in the military,
regadless of country or military.
—

- dillon  I am not invalid

"Always shoot first.  At the very least you’ll
distract the guy enough to make the second one count"
— Lazurus Long

The "official" entry list has been posted by the FIA (on the deadline
set by their 2010 sporting regulations):

No Driver                  Entrant                   Constructor
1  Jenson BUTTON (GB)      VODAFONE McLAREN MERCEDES McLAREN MERCEDES
2  Lewis HAMILTON (GB)     VODAFONE McLAREN MERCEDES McLAREN MERCEDES

3  Nico ROSBERG (D)        BRAWN GP FORMULA ONE TEAM BRAWN MERCEDES
4  TBA                     BRAWN GP FORMULA ONE TEAM BRAWN MERCEDES

5  Sebastian VETTEL (D)    RED BULL RACING           RED BULL RENAULT
6  Mark WEBBER (AUS)       RED BULL RACING           RED BULL RENAULT

7  Felipe MASSA (BR)       SCUDERIA FERRARI MARLBORO FERRARI
8  Fernando ALONSO (E)     SCUDERIA FERRARI MARLBORO FERRARI

9  Rubens BARRICHELLO (BR) AT&T WILLIAMS             WILLIAMS COSWORTH
10 Nico HULKENBERG (D)     AT&T WILLIAMS             WILLIAMS COSWORTH

11 Robert KUBICA (PL)      RENAULT F1 TEAM           RENAULT
12 TBA                     RENAULT F1 TEAM           RENAULT

14 Adrian SUTIL (D)        FORCE INDIA F1 TEAM       FORCE INDIA MERCEDES
15 Vitantonio LIUZZI (I)   FORCE INDIA F1 TEAM       FORCE INDIA MERCEDES

16 Sebastien BUEMI (CH)    SCUDERIA TORO ROSSO       STR FERRARI
17 TBA                     SCUDERIA TORO ROSSO       STR FERRARI

18 TBA                     LOTUS F1 RACING           LOTUS COSWORTH
19 TBA                     LOTUS F1 RACING           LOTUS COSWORTH

20 TBA                     CAMPOS META 1             CAMPOS DALLARA
21 Bruno SENNA (BR)        CAMPOS META 1             CAMPOS DALLARA

22 TBA                     US F1 TEAM                US F1 COSWORTH
23 TBA                     US F1 TEAM                US F1 COSWORTH

24 Timo GLOCK (D)          VIRGIN RACING             VIRGIN COSWORTH
25 TBA                     VIRGIN RACING             VIRGIN COSWORTH

No major surprises.  Minor surprises:

- While Manor’s expected renaming to Virgin Racing has taken place,
   Brawn’s to Mercedes Grand Prix is relegated to a footnote saying
   they’ve indicated their "intention" to do so.

- Neither Toyota nor [BMW] Sauber is listed.  Another footnote:
   "Toyota Motorsport GmbH remains formally bound by the Concorde
   Agreement to put forward a team for participation, though it has
   indicated that it will not be in a position to do so.  "An
   announcement will be made regarding this entry in due course."
   Whoever ends up running in the 13th slot will evidently be
   assigned numbers 26 and 27; wonder if Bernie will put them at
   the end of the pit lane.

Non-surprises:

- Drivers listed.
– Confirmation of Renault power for Red Bull.  Really, what other
   possibility was there?

Likely red herring:

- The "Constructor" for entrant Campos Meta 1 reflects the folks
   actually building the car ("Campos Dallara"); the omission of
   mention of an engine is almost certainly an oversight.

–
Mark Jackson – http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
     Not knowing is much more interesting than believing
     an answer that might be wrong.    - Richard Feynman

Actually this one is interesting. Autosport magazine contacted almost all living F1
drivers and asked them for their all-time (since 1950) top 10. 217 of them responded
and this is the result – no driver could vote for themselves and points were
allocated 10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1

=76  Peter Collins, Luigi Villoresi, Mark Webber, Mike Hailwood,           ***
     Pedro Rodriguez, Eddie Irvine, Andrea de Cesaris, Kazuki Nakajima
 75  Pedro Lamy
 74  Vitantonio Liuzzi
 73  Harry Schell
 72  Stefano Modena
 71  Carlos Pace

 70  Wolfgang von Trips
 69  Maurice Trintignant
 68  Hans Herrmann
 67  Derek Warwick
 66  Johnny Herbert
 65  Jean-Pierre Beltoise
 64  Chris Amon
 63  Aguri Suzuki
 62  Denny Hulme
 61  Bruce McLaren

 60  Tom Pryce
 59  Felipe Massa           ***
 58  Jo Siffert
 57  Alex Zanardi
 56  Tony Maggs
 55  Henri Pescarolo
 54  Mike Hawthorn
 53  Elio de Angelis
 52  Tony Brooks
 51  Juan Pablo Montoya

 50  Michele Alboreto
 49  Jacques Laffite
 48  Lorenzo Bandini
 47  Jody Scheckter
 46  Piero Taruffi
 45  Damon Hill
 44  Didier Pironi
 43  Robert Kubica           ***
 42  Jean Alesi
 41  Jacques Villeneuve

 40  Jacky Ickx
 39  Riccardo Patrese
 38  Jean Behra
 37  Gerhard Berger
 36  Clay Regazzoni
 35  Stefan Bellof
 34  Carlos Reutemann
 33  Phil Hill
 32  Giuseppe Farina
 31  Alan Jones

 30  Jenson Button           ***
 29  Francois Cevert
 28  Dan Gurney
 27  Froilan Gonzalez
 26  Sebastian Vettel           ***
 25  Keke Rosberg
 24  James Hunt
 23  John Surtees
 22  Kimi Räikkönen           ***
 21  Graham Hill

 20  Mario Andretti
 19  Ronnie Peterson
 18  Jack Brabham
 17  Lewis Hamilton           ***
 16  Alberto Ascari
 15  Mika Häkkinen
 14  Jochen Rindt
 13  Nelson Piquet
 12  Emerson Fittipaldi
 11  Nigel Mansell

 10  Gilles Villeneuve
  9  Fernando Alonso           ***
  8  Stirling Moss
  7  Niki Lauda
  6  Jackie Stewart
  5  Jim Clark
  4  Alain Prost
  3  Juan Manuel Fangio
  2  Michael Schumacher
  1  Ayrton Senna

–

Brian W Lawrence
Wantage,
Oxfordshire, UK
Brian_W_Lawre…@msn.com

So – Bridgestone out after 2010.  There’s time to line up another source
of tires, but what other manufacturer is likely to step up?

And – Toyota out immediately.  What are the penalties for leaving before
2012 under the new Concorde agreement?  Why is the FIA talking about
needing to clarify the legal situation (especially as this prolongs the
uncertainty around Sauber Qadbak’s entry)?  And why are the FIA and
Ferrari sniping at each other again over cost containment?

Oh, and does anyone think that if the Renault board had decided today to
continue in F1 they wouldn’t have announced it immediately (rather than
delaying past their PR event already scheduled for Thursday)?

–
Mark Jackson – http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
     Not knowing is much more interesting than believing
     an answer that might be wrong.    - Richard Feynman

Best Lap Comparison – Italian GP 2009
=====================================

Q: How does the best lap of the whole weekend (3 practice sessions, 3 qualifying
periods and the race) compare to the best lap of the weekend in 2008?

Here are two tables – one compares driver with driver; easy enough if the same
driver remains in the same team. If not we compare the 2008 driver with the guy
who replaced him.

Note: Honda has morphed into Brawn-Mercedes, while Force India have switched
from Ferrari to Mercedes power.

‘S’ is the session when the best lap was achieved (P1/P2/P3/Q1/Q2/Q3/R)
‘Lps’ are the total laps in all sessions
‘Diff’ is the gain/loss in seconds
‘%Diff’ is the difference in time as a percentage of the 2008 time

Negative Diff/%Diff mean that the driver/team improved. Positive means they got worse.

There can be several reasons for the variations seen.

2008 Team         2008 Driver S   Lps  Time     2009 Driver S   Lps  Time    Diff.  %Diff
=========================================================================================
Renault           Piquet      P2  109  1′26.195 Grosjean    Q2  138 1′23.728 -2.467 -2.86
[Honda]           Button      P2  123  1′25.309 Button      Q2  153 1′22.955 -2.354 -2.76
[Honda]           Barrichello P2  111  1′25.296 Barrichello Q2  155 1′22.976 -2.320 -2.72
Toyota            Trulli      P2  130  1′25.753 Trulli      Q2  152 1′23.611 -2.142 -2.50
F India-[Ferrari] Fisichella  P2   82  1′25.204 Liuzzi      Q2  137 1′23.207 -1.997 -2.34
Renault           Alonso      P2  123  1′25.481 Alonso      Q2  151 1′23.497 -1.984 -2.32
F India-[Ferrari] Sutil       P2  114  1′24.669 Sutil       Q2  150 1′23.070 -1.599 -1.89
Red Bull-Renault  Coulthard   P2  112  1′25.100 Vettel      Q2  127 1′23.545 -1.555 -1.83
Toyota            Glock       P2  138  1′25.397 Glock       P3  138 1′23.959 -1.438 -1.68
Red Bull-Renault  Webber      P2  120  1′24.521 Webber      Q2   81 1′23.273 -1.248 -1.48
Williams-Toyota   Nakajima    P2  106  1′25.330 Nakajima    Q1  146 1′24.074 -1.256 -1.47
McLaren-Mercedes  Hamilton    P2  106  1′23.983 Hamilton    Q2  151 1′22.973 -1.010 -1.20
T Rosso-Ferrari   Bourdais    P2  147  1′25.192 Buemi       Q1  166 1′24.220 -0.972 -1.14
McLaren-Mercedes  Kovalainen  P2  113  1′24.365 Kovalainen  Q1  168 1′23.515 -0.850 -1.01
Ferrari           Räikkönen   P2  113  1′23.861 Räikkönen   Q1  166 1′23.349 -0.512 -0.61
BMW Sauber-BMW    Heidfeld    P2  121  1′23.947 Heidfeld    P3  144 1′23.490 -0.457 -0.54
Ferrari           Massa       P2  127  1′24.247 Fisichella  Q1  147 1′23.828 -0.419 -0.50
BMW Sauber-BMW    Kubica      P2  108  1′23.931 Kubica      Q2  110 1′23.866 -0.065 -0.08

Williams-Toyota   Rosberg     P2  136  1′24.110 Rosberg     Q1  151 1′24.121 +0.011 +0.01
T Rosso-Ferrari   Vettel      P2  140  1′24.773 Alguersuari Q1  104 1′24.951 +0.178 +0.21

Notes

Only Nico Rosberg and Jaime Alguersuari were unable to better the equivalent time from 2008.
It should be noted that all the 2008 best times were set during Friday practice, the only
dry sessions that weekend.

The second table takes the best lap time from both drivers in each team and compares
with the equivalent team last season. Probably a better comparison.

2008 Team         2008 Driver S   Lps  Time     2009 Driver S   Lps  Time    Diff.  %Diff
=========================================================================================
[Honda]           Barrichello P2  234  1′25.296 Button      Q2  308 1′22.955 -2.341 -2.74
Renault           Alonso      P2  232  1′25.481 Alonso      Q2  289 1′23.497 -1.984 -2.32
Toyota            Glock       P2  268  1′25.397 Trulli      Q2  290 1′23.611 -1.786 -2.09
F India-[Ferrari] Sutil       P2  196  1′24.669 Sutil       Q2  187 1′23.070 -1.599 -1.89
Red Bull-Renault  Webber      P2  232  1′24.521 Webber      Q2  208 1′23.273 -1.248 -1.48
McLaren-Mercedes  Hamilton    P2  219  1′23.983 Hamilton    Q2  319 1′22.973 -1.010 -1.20
T Rosso-Ferrari   Vettel      P2  287  1′24.773 Buemi       Q1  270 1′24.220 -0.553 -0.65
Ferrari           Räikkönen   P2  240  1′23.861 Räikkönen   Q1  313 1′23.349 -0.512 -0.61
BMW Sauber-BMW    Kubica      P2  229  1′23.931 Heidfeld    P3  254 1′23.490 -0.441 -0.53
Williams-Toyota   Rosberg     P2  242  1′24.110 Nakajima    Q1  297 1′24.074 -0.036 -0.04

All 10 teams were quicker than last year, partly due to the weather in 2008.

Taking the positions of the teams from table 2 we can produce an average position for
the season to date.

    Team              R1 R2 R3 R4 R5 R6 R7 R8 R9 10 11 12 13  Tot  Avg.
=======================================================================
 1. Brawn-Mercedes     1  1  2  2  1  1  1  1  -  4  1  2  1   18  1.50
 2. F India-Mercedes   8  6  1  1  5  2  3  5  -  2  2  1  4   40  3.33
 3. Red Bull-Renault   2  4  3  3  2  4  4  6  -  3  3  5  5   44  3.67
 4. Williams-Toyota    3  2  4  6  3  7  2  2  -  1  4  4 10   48  4.00
 5. Toyota             4  3  5  7  4  9  5  3  - 10  7  3  3   63  5.25
 6. Renault            5  5  6  4  8  5  6  4  -  7  6  7  2   65  5.42
 7. T Rosso-Ferrari   10  7  8  5  6  3  7  9  -  6 10 10  7   88  7.33
 8. BMW Sauber-BMW     7  8  7  9  9 10  8  8  -  5  8  6  9   94  7.83
 9. Ferrari            6  9  9 10  7  6  9  7  -  9  9  8  8   97  8.08
10. McLaren-Mercedes   9 10 10  8 10  8 10 10  -  8  5  9  6  103  8.58

–

Brian W Lawrence
Wantage,
Oxfordshire, UK
Brian_W_Lawre…@msn.com

It’s, (roughly) the 11th minute of the 11th hour of the 11th day of
the 11th month.  In the US it’s Veteran’s Day, in Europe it’s
Armistice Day, but …

I want to thank everyone who served their country in the military,
regadless of country or military.
—

- dillon  I am not invalid

"Always shoot first.  At the very least you’ll
distract the guy enough to make the second one count"
— Lazurus Long

The "official" entry list has been posted by the FIA (on the deadline
set by their 2010 sporting regulations):

No Driver                  Entrant                   Constructor
1  Jenson BUTTON (GB)      VODAFONE McLAREN MERCEDES McLAREN MERCEDES
2  Lewis HAMILTON (GB)     VODAFONE McLAREN MERCEDES McLAREN MERCEDES

3  Nico ROSBERG (D)        BRAWN GP FORMULA ONE TEAM BRAWN MERCEDES
4  TBA                     BRAWN GP FORMULA ONE TEAM BRAWN MERCEDES

5  Sebastian VETTEL (D)    RED BULL RACING           RED BULL RENAULT
6  Mark WEBBER (AUS)       RED BULL RACING           RED BULL RENAULT

7  Felipe MASSA (BR)       SCUDERIA FERRARI MARLBORO FERRARI
8  Fernando ALONSO (E)     SCUDERIA FERRARI MARLBORO FERRARI

9  Rubens BARRICHELLO (BR) AT&T WILLIAMS             WILLIAMS COSWORTH
10 Nico HULKENBERG (D)     AT&T WILLIAMS             WILLIAMS COSWORTH

11 Robert KUBICA (PL)      RENAULT F1 TEAM           RENAULT
12 TBA                     RENAULT F1 TEAM           RENAULT

14 Adrian SUTIL (D)        FORCE INDIA F1 TEAM       FORCE INDIA MERCEDES
15 Vitantonio LIUZZI (I)   FORCE INDIA F1 TEAM       FORCE INDIA MERCEDES

16 Sebastien BUEMI (CH)    SCUDERIA TORO ROSSO       STR FERRARI
17 TBA                     SCUDERIA TORO ROSSO       STR FERRARI

18 TBA                     LOTUS F1 RACING           LOTUS COSWORTH
19 TBA                     LOTUS F1 RACING           LOTUS COSWORTH

20 TBA                     CAMPOS META 1             CAMPOS DALLARA
21 Bruno SENNA (BR)        CAMPOS META 1             CAMPOS DALLARA

22 TBA                     US F1 TEAM                US F1 COSWORTH
23 TBA                     US F1 TEAM                US F1 COSWORTH

24 Timo GLOCK (D)          VIRGIN RACING             VIRGIN COSWORTH
25 TBA                     VIRGIN RACING             VIRGIN COSWORTH

No major surprises.  Minor surprises:

- While Manor’s expected renaming to Virgin Racing has taken place,
   Brawn’s to Mercedes Grand Prix is relegated to a footnote saying
   they’ve indicated their "intention" to do so.

- Neither Toyota nor [BMW] Sauber is listed.  Another footnote:
   "Toyota Motorsport GmbH remains formally bound by the Concorde
   Agreement to put forward a team for participation, though it has
   indicated that it will not be in a position to do so.  "An
   announcement will be made regarding this entry in due course."
   Whoever ends up running in the 13th slot will evidently be
   assigned numbers 26 and 27; wonder if Bernie will put them at
   the end of the pit lane.

Non-surprises:

- Drivers listed.
– Confirmation of Renault power for Red Bull.  Really, what other
   possibility was there?

Likely red herring:

- The "Constructor" for entrant Campos Meta 1 reflects the folks
   actually building the car ("Campos Dallara"); the omission of
   mention of an engine is almost certainly an oversight.

–
Mark Jackson – http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson
     Not knowing is much more interesting than believing
     an answer that might be wrong.    - Richard Feynman

Actually this one is interesting. Autosport magazine contacted almost all living F1
drivers and asked them for their all-time (since 1950) top 10. 217 of them responded
and this is the result – no driver could vote for themselves and points were
allocated 10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1

=76  Peter Collins, Luigi Villoresi, Mark Webber, Mike Hailwood,           ***
     Pedro Rodriguez, Eddie Irvine, Andrea de Cesaris, Kazuki Nakajima
 75  Pedro Lamy
 74  Vitantonio Liuzzi
 73  Harry Schell
 72  Stefano Modena
 71  Carlos Pace

 70  Wolfgang von Trips
 69  Maurice Trintignant
 68  Hans Herrmann
 67  Derek Warwick
 66  Johnny Herbert
 65  Jean-Pierre Beltoise
 64  Chris Amon
 63  Aguri Suzuki
 62  Denny Hulme
 61  Bruce McLaren

 60  Tom Pryce
 59  Felipe Massa           ***
 58  Jo Siffert
 57  Alex Zanardi
 56  Tony Maggs
 55  Henri Pescarolo
 54  Mike Hawthorn
 53  Elio de Angelis
 52  Tony Brooks
 51  Juan Pablo Montoya

 50  Michele Alboreto
 49  Jacques Laffite
 48  Lorenzo Bandini
 47  Jody Scheckter
 46  Piero Taruffi
 45  Damon Hill
 44  Didier Pironi
 43  Robert Kubica           ***
 42  Jean Alesi
 41  Jacques Villeneuve

 40  Jacky Ickx
 39  Riccardo Patrese
 38  Jean Behra
 37  Gerhard Berger
 36  Clay Regazzoni
 35  Stefan Bellof
 34  Carlos Reutemann
 33  Phil Hill
 32  Giuseppe Farina
 31  Alan Jones

 30  Jenson Button           ***
 29  Francois Cevert
 28  Dan Gurney
 27  Froilan Gonzalez
 26  Sebastian Vettel           ***
 25  Keke Rosberg
 24  James Hunt
 23  John Surtees
 22  Kimi Räikkönen           ***
 21  Graham Hill

 20  Mario Andretti
 19  Ronnie Peterson
 18  Jack Brabham
 17  Lewis Hamilton           ***
 16  Alberto Ascari
 15  Mika Häkkinen
 14  Jochen Rindt
 13  Nelson Piquet
 12  Emerson Fittipaldi
 11  Nigel Mansell

 10  Gilles Villeneuve
  9  Fernando Alonso           ***
  8  Stirling Moss
  7  Niki Lauda
  6  Jackie Stewart
  5  Jim Clark
  4  Alain Prost
  3  Juan Manuel Fangio
  2  Michael Schumacher
  1  Ayrton Senna

–

Brian W Lawrence
Wantage,
Oxfordshire, UK
Brian_W_Lawre…@msn.com